helios 40--85mm/1.5

pirius · Joined: 28 May 2009 Posts: 133 Location: SoFla

I have very early version of Helios-40 with red П marking (Russian equivalent of "red T" by Zeiss) and it is my favorite lens. The sharpness and colors are top notch and the flare is much better controlled than with later silver versions (haven't tried black 40-2 so I can't compare to that one).
Comparing to Biotar 75mm, it has creamier bokeh with larger and less pronounced circles. Of course, modern Planar 85/1.4 is a tad sharper and the bokeh is more uniform... More boring Smile

Here's one from Helios wide open:

aoleg · Joined: 22 Feb 2008 Posts: 1389 Location: Berlin, DE

BTW, there's one Helios-40-2 on eBay with a reasonable (at least at the moment) current bid: Click here to see on Ebay (13 hours left)

F16SUNSHINE · Expire: 2011-11-18

hinnerker · Expire: 2015-08-09

One simple Question please...

Are we talking about performance at f/1.4-1.5/85mm?

Why you want to buy a 1.4/1.5 Lens to use it stopped down?
So this is going to be a boring discussion when you try to find out which lens is better stopped down !

For my eyes, the Samyang is the best, if you look for a lens to use at f/1.4.
If you discussing the behavior of a stopped down lens, there where lots more competitors. If you will buy a lens with 1.4.. use it at 1.4.. or buy a f/2.8/85mm lens from a major brand. Take a Leica Elmarit 2.8/90mm and be happy.

Sorry, just my 2 cents..

Cheers
Henry

mflex-on · Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:19 am Post subject:

hinnerker · Expire: 2015-08-09

mflex-on · Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:29 am Post subject:

I follow Orio when he says that most of the time a quiet background/bokeh is better in forming a picture. The sharp parts of a picture are easy to recognize (even if not centered) with a lens like the Zeiss Planar.

A lens like the Helios or the Biotar are something special to use and so the pictures you make with these lenses tend to be "art" - and not "commercial". It is more difficult to make superficially good pictures.

Helios · Joined: 05 Jan 2008 Posts: 537 Location: East of France

Very fine analysis , mflex-on ! I tried to use my Helios-40 to take pictures of organ cases , and this"centered sharp part" was very apparent even stopped down . Now I use Angenieux Y-12 90mm or Rodagon 80 el lens or 50mm focal length lenses for this special purpose . However , Helios-40 is for me a marvelous portrait tool .
here a crop (25% of the original) . F/4 Istdl sensor, 200 iso

rbelyell · Expire: 2014-01-31

Helios · Joined: 05 Jan 2008 Posts: 537 Location: East of France

Many thanks, rbelyell, I bought my copy in 1987, brand new ... , 850 french Francs , that was $180/$200 of 1987 , it was a lot of money ! My jupiter is a 1969 purchase (my first "telephoto") , and my s-tak 1,8/85 was second-hand acquired in 1977 .... My oldies are in very good condition , no repairs , only the grease in the j-9 was removed for a better one in 1990 .
Smile

rbelyell · Expire: 2014-01-31

hey helios, if you have a minute, maybe you could post some pix w the tak 85 to see how it stacks up. though i think these too are pretty pricey! it really seems that this FL does not allow for a reasonably priced quality lens outside of the jupiter, and i think that's very strange...even the really wide angles, which today given the crop-camera scene--are gold, have a variety of good performers around or under $200!

pirius · Joined: 28 May 2009 Posts: 133 Location: SoFla

hk300 · Joined: 30 Oct 2008 Posts: 1041 Location: Hong Kong

Riku · Expire: 2017-04-30

With current prices Samyang is the obvious choice. You'll get a new lens with guarantee. Have you heard any news about the 14mm Samyang? That's the one I want.

rbelyell · Expire: 2014-01-31

@relayer: are you freakin' kidding me?! wow!! i want that!!! but how do you get it to work on a dslr--i understood c mount lenses only operated as macro lenses on dslr????

no-X · Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:25 pm Post subject:

hinnerker · Expire: 2015-08-09

rbelyell · Expire: 2014-01-31

henry thanks so much! you of course are correct; we can only know what we really like through personal use. but i disagree a little when you say there are many 85mms at different prices. my point really is that the 85mm FL is NOT like other FL's because there are NOT any lenses i have seen under $200 except for the jupiter! and the lenses we have talked about here are between $3-800! any other FL i think there is great variety of quality lenses for under $150!!!

F16SUNSHINE · Expire: 2011-11-18

peterqd · Expire: 2014-01-04

hinnerker · Expire: 2015-08-09

no-X · Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:28 pm Post subject:

Ok, I'll try to summarize my experience with these 75-100mm lenses:

CZJ Biotar 75/1.5
Meyer Primoplan 75/1.9
CZJ Tessar 75/2.8
Meyer Primoplan 80/1.9
CZJ Pancolar MC 80/1.8
CZJ Biometar 80/2.8 (alu)
CZJ Biometar 80/2.8 (P6)
Helios 40-2 85/1.5
S-M-C Takumar 85/1.8
Vivitar 85/1.8
Jupiter-9 85/2
Meyer Telefogar 90/3.5
Meyer Trioplan 100/2.8

1. CZJ Biotar 75/1.5
One of the most expensive M42 lenses; I think only M42 version of Macro APO Lanthar would go for higher price on ebay Smile

I'm not sure, if optical quality corresponds with current price, but price aside the lens is good. I'd say it shares many characteristics with Helios 40, but sharpness at f/1.5 is better. But both of them have dignificant difference between borders and centre.

I think Biotars are prized just because of its price. It sounds strange, but the price is rising significantly and this lens isn't bad investment. It's not easy to find a copy with optics in really good condition. It's often affected by cleaning marks or fungus (these old coating layers were quite soft).

2. Meyer Primoplan 75/1.9
This lens is rare, it's softer than Biotar, but as all Primoplans it has lovely bokeh. My copy isn't in good optical condition; old Meyer coating is even softer than CZJ T-layers and layers on inner surfaces aren't hardened, so even a harder brush can damage than (many users don't have this infromation and despite they are trying to make optical performance better, they damage the lens...). Maybe M42 Primoplan 75/1.9 in good condition is the only lens, which has comparable price to Biotars. But Primoplans are more rare. I have no idea why, because their original price was almost half whem compared to Biotars and according to some old articles they had really good value for the money (it was even way cheaper than standard f/1.9-f/2 lenses). I'd like to know, why it is so rare now.

3. CZJ Tessar 75/2.8
This lens was used on B or C exaktas. It's nice collectors item, but it has low contrast (no coating), so it isn't suitable for general usage.

4. Meyer Primoplan 80/1.9
Another Primoplan in this focal lenght (originally medium format lens). Always uncoated (maybe one surface has some early form of coating)... anyway, contrast isn't bad, character and sharpness is identical to other Primoplan lenses - unique bokeh, a bit soft wide-opened and extremely low CA. Primoplans are the only fast lenses in this list, which doesn't show almost any sign of CA in bokeh.

5. CZJ Pancolar MC 80/1.8
I'd say this is the best choice for versatile and sharp M42 80mm lens. It's contrasty, it has the best wide-opened performance of all f/1.5-f/2 M42 portrait lenses. Center is close to Biotar, but borders are much sharper. Great colours (MC) + great bokeh. It also isn't as risky as the early post-war lenses, because its coating is much harder, so cleaning marks are not an issue. For me it's the best post-war Jena lens.

6. CZJ Biometar 80/2.8 (alu)
A bit uncommon, but quite sharp lens. My copy still waits for more testing...

7. CZJ Biometar 80/2.8 (P6)
Sharp and contrasty lens, but bokeh isn't as smooth as on the faster lenses. Anyway, it's the best price/performance lens if sharpness matters and speed doesn't.

8. Helios 40-2 85/1.5
A bit skittish lens. A lot of patience is needed, results are very variable. Sometimes the crazy bokeh and softness works, sometimes not. It's simply a bit longer model of Biotar with more optical aberrations.

9. S-M-C Takumar 85/1.8
Contrasty lens, it is able to produce quite 3D-looking results (I'm not very good in this discipline, but you can find very interesting pictures taken by this lens). But... I expected a bit sharper results at f/1.8. In absolute scale the sharpness is good, but Pancolar is visibly better. I'm looking forward to this spring and summer, I'll give more chances to this lens. I think it has potential - the S-M-C coating is more effective, than CZJ MC coating - it doesn't create almost any ghosting when shooting wide-opened in contrasty situations.

10. Vivitar 85/1.8
This lens is underrated. It isn't very common, it has unclean history and origin, but it's the cheapest 85/1.8 lens - very sharp stopped down, a bit softer than 1st grade lenses wide-opened, but still good. It has nice bokeh, round aperture, T/T2 mount (adaptable to many systems)... Very good price/performance.

11. Jupiter-9 85/2
A bit risky choice, many copies are lemons (significant soft glow visible even on downsampled image or/and uneven sharpness). Good copy can be better than Helios-40. The older model, the lower chance to get a lemon. Jupiter has perfectly smooth bokeh if the background isn't busy (lights or distracting background creates bokeh full of circles)

12. Meyer Telefogar 90/3.5
This lens is common in altix mount, but a bit rare in M42 or exacta mount. It uses simplified Sonnar formula (like Sonnars 135/4 and 135/3.5), but isn't as sharp. Good for retro effect.

13. Meyer Trioplan 100/2.8
3-in-1 lens. Soft + retro effect at f/2.8 (+ bokeh full of circles), smooth bokeh at f/4, quite sharp rendering at f/5.6. Good for close-up, too. Just like many meyer early post-war lenses, even this one has very low CA.

poilu · Expire: 2019-08-29

nice review no-X, it is a pleasure to read it

hinnerker · Expire: 2015-08-09

Olivier · Expire: 2015-08-06

Just some test shots taken with the Helios 40 alu version (this one is from 1963) :
Helios 40 alu

and also some with a lens you forgot : the Volna-3 2.8/80 for Kiev-60 and Pentacon-6. You can find it at reasonale prices.
Volna-3